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Track or Battery Power?

 

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Now there's a question that can drive some interesting discussion. 

(See this forum discussion to see what I mean:  http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/23/tpage/1/view/Topic/postid/72180/Default.aspx )

 

If you are getting started in Largescale, this will most likely be a question that you may ask yourself either right up front (hopefully) or at some point in the future.  From reading the discussion forums online you may a lot of general statements about one or the other that don't in my opinion accurately reflect the realities and give you the big picture.  Compounding this problem there are numerous parties who promote certain systems because it's in their or their buddies best financial interest.  (i.e.  People either directly selling products or getting free product from manufacturers.)

That is the purpose of this write-up, to attempt to provide a high level cost summary review based on what I've learned in my 5 years of being involved in the hobby.  There are a lot of things to consider and I will over time try to include as much as possible as I develop this page. 

 

 

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What do I go with, battery or track power? 

Two of the main points people cite generally in trying to decide which way to go is 1) Cost (initial & over-time)   and   2) Maintenance/trouble of operation. 

 

So what is it?  To save you from reading everything below, the short honest answer is it Depends....

 

Depends on variables like: 

        1) What type and how many engines do you plan to run at one time?  

        2) How big will your layout ultimately be? 

        3) How many hours a day do you plan to run?

        4) What type and level of sophistication of control you want?

 

Key summary points:  (see Detail Discussion for source of cost figure estimates)

  • Reliable track power deployments are more expensive, so the larger the layout the more it will initially cost.
    • Stainless Steel - ~$6.59/ft  - (Best for track power, no cleaning required)
    • Brass - ~$4.52/ft - (Good for track power, cleaning required)
    • Aluminum - ~$3.02/ft - (Generally good for battery only)
  • Battery power becomes more cost prohibitive the more and larger the engines you want to run and the longer you want to run them (Example:  Aristocraft Dash-9 runs 1 hour on one $70 Aristocraft Li-ion battery pack.  Charger cost $26.  Source: Image of discussion post )  The more Dash-9s you run, and the more hours of run time you want, the higher the investment in batteries and chargers you will make.) 
    • You will eventually have to replace the battery packs as they go bad.  (approx 3 year life span.  Source: Life-span question & answer ) 
    • (Some claim battery lives of 7-15 years are possible with Ni cad, but I've never seen a rechargeable battery last more 3 years and still have any usable power amperage for any reasonable length of time when actually put to use.)
  • Generally speaking, the more advanced control systems are track power based.  (Some like DCS can be adapted to battery however)
  • Stainless Steel track has in-fact eliminated the need to clean track because of corrosion so you now have true trouble-free operation.
    • Stainless steel will not help if you have environmental issues like tress dropping sticky sap on your rails.

 

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Detail Discussion:

 

Track power: (To minimize hassle you will need the following at a minimum)

  • Transformer - (Top of the line Bridgewerks power supplies range from $148 to $517(3 to 25 amp))  
    • [$148(3 amp), $244(5 amp), $281(10amp), $310(15amp), $384(20amp) $517(25amp)]
  • Track - (Main types good for track power:  Stainless steel or Brass) - ~$5.40/ft for SS / ~$ 3.95/ft for Brass (at 7/22/08 sale pricing buy 4 get 1 box free)
  • Feeder wire (needed if using SS OR if using Brass without Split-jaw rail clamps) -   ~$ .40 per ft (12 gauge low voltage outdoor landscape wire)
  • Rail clamps - (really a must) - {with 5ft sections} add $.79/ft for SS / $.57/ft for Brass  (www.Trainworld.com  Split-Jaw clamp prices as of 7/22/08)
  • Cost Summary: (Layout only) 
    • Stainless steel deployment cost per foot = $6.59 (Track, clamps, feeder wire)
    • Brass deployment cost per foot = $4.52 (Track & clamps, no feeders) (Add .40/ft for feeder wire)

    Example:  (A 700ft layout would now cost approximately, minus power supply)

    • Brass (no feeders) - $3164
    • Stainless Steel - $4613
  • General points:
    • All engines from all manufacturers run on track power right out of the box.
    • Advent of Stainless Steel has eliminated the need to clean track because of non-electrically conductive corrosion common with brass rail. 
      • You will need to utilize feeder wires with Stainless steel on ovals over ~120ft because of voltage drop.
    • A layout good for track power is also good for battery powered engines
    • Your friends who run either track or battery power can both run on your layout.
    • Have the ability to run more sophisticated sound and control systems such as DCC and DCS.
    • You will hear that some have good experience with brass track outdoors, but it all always requires some sort of cleaning at some point to address corrosion/oxidation.

 

 

Battery power:  (You will need at a minimum)

  • Track - (Aluminum is lowest cost option available) - $3.02/ft for Aluminum rail from http://www.svrronline.com/TrackandRail.html
  • Batteries - (Aristocraft Li-Ion pack 21.5volts / 2amps) - $70 each   PLUS  One battery charger per battery pack - $26/each)
  • Engine may require modification to run battery power (If not made by Aristocraft) -  USA Trains, MTH, Bachmann all require conversion
  • Control system -
    • Aristocraft:  (as an example)
      • Train Engineer - Handheld Wireless Transmitter <Qty 1>:  $99
      • Train Engineer - Onboard Engine control board <Qty 1>: $144  (Not sure how many engines one board can power)
  • Cost summary: (Layout only)
    • Lower cost of track deployment. (Saves: $1.52/ft compared to Brass / $3.59/ft compared to Stainless Steel)
      • Example:  (What a 700ft layout would now cost approximately)
        • Aluminum - $2114
        • Brass (no feeders) - $3164
        • Stainless Steel - $4613

         

  • General points:
    • Only Aristocraft engines are equipped to run battery power right out of the box all others will require modification.  (Modifications are relatively simple)
    • A layout not built out for reliable track power running will limit only you to only being able to run battery equipped/converted equipment.
    • Recurring battery replacement costs about every 3 years.  Total recurrent cost will depend on how many you will need to keep on hand at a time.
    • You will be limited in the control systems you will likely want to run under battery.  Generally speaking, these control systems are more basic when compared to the more sophisticated systems generally used with track power in G scale today such as DCC and DCS(by MTH).  (As noted before DCS can be adapted for battery operation)
    • Battery equipped engines do:
      • Allow you to run on any layout regardless of the native control system the hosting layout has or is running right then.
      • Eliminate the need to worry about electronics required to run reversing loops.
    • If you have already invested heavily in a large brass track layout and some of the following battery might be a good option for you:
      • Don't like the hassle of cleaning the track
      • Don't want to convert to stainless steel
      • Run limited numbers of engines at one time
      • Run smaller engines
      • Only want to run for relatively short periods of time
      • Have trees dropping sticky sap on your rails.

 

 

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Other thoughts:

To give an example on the costs of attempting to use batteries on my layout with my trains:

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I tend to run an entire day 10+ hours and will sometimes run 5 Aristocraft Dash-9s + 60 coal hoppers on one track and 3 MTH Big Boys + 60 coal hoppers on another track.  Using the estimated run-time experience from actual users provided in the noted Aristocraft discussion thread above Image of discussion post, to run 5 Dash-9s 10 hours, it would require 10 Aristocraft Li-ion batteries for each Dash-9 (for a total of 50 battery packs) with a per unit cost of $70 each and a total battery cost of $3500(not including chargers @$26 each or an additional $1300).  To run my Big Boys I will assume if I'm lucky they have the same power requirements as each Dash-9 so to run those 10 hours would require 10 battery packs for each engine (for a total of 30 battery packs).  At $70 each that works out to a total cost of $2100.  The combined need would be 80 battery packs for both trains and a combined cost in just batteries alone would come to $5600 (not including the cost of chargers at $2080) which would be a grand total of $7680.  In 3 years or so I would have to repeat this battery cost over again.  Note that the entire cost to deploy a large 700ft of stainless steel track would only cost $4613.  Figure in the most expensive Bridgewerks transformer at 25amp of $517 and I'm only at $5130. 

I realize that this is an extreme example and most people don't run this many engines at one time.  However, if you have simply one Dash-9 that you want to run all day, that's 10 battery packs for a total cost of $700 in batteries.  Add in 10 chargers and you're at $960.  You can see that battery costs can quickly eat up the lower initial cost of entry with being able to go with Aluminum rail... and over the cost of many years the battery cost can eventually exceed the cost of a properly done Stainless steel deployment.

I haven't gone into the lighted passenger cars and trains, but these are big power hogs.  Generally because you run them lit only at night, the needed run time duration are usually shorter because it is at night.  This is another area that would need to be addressed.

So as you can see, in my case battery power would be extremely cost prohibitive and maintenance nightmare as I don't know where I would store 80 batteries and 80 chargers. 

 

 

Other experiences lending support to the issue of running larger engines under battery power:

  1. http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/23/aft/112992/afv/topic/afpg/2/Default.aspx

 

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Myths I have heard: (Track power)

  • "With track power you have to clean you track to get them to run" - ANSWER:  FALSE   Not any more.  Stainless steel has truly eliminated this problem of poor conductivity due to oxidation/corrosion.  (particulates adhered to the rail tops could cause some issue but this has not been a problem for me at all.)   As said before, if you have an issue like trees dropping sap on the rails then this would be an exception.
    • Example:  In 2008 I finally ran a train on my old 120ft loop that had not been used, cleaned or touched for well over a year.  The train drove out on it and had no hesitation or power pickup problems and had no flicker at all from the passenger car lights.  Even I was surprised.
  • "Even with rail clamps you will have to regularly check Rail clamps are tight and will require maintenance" - ANSWER:  FALSE   The major portion of my layout has been in place for 5 years and the rail clamps do not work loose or loosen.  Once tight, they will remain that way till you loosen them.
  • "Even with rail clamps you will not be guaranteed a reliable electrical connection" - ANSWER:  FALSE   Again, my layout has been in place 5 years with no issues with the rail connections and they have not been touched since they were installed.

 

Myths I have heard: (Battery power)

  • "Battery power is cheaper and saves money" - ANSWER:  DEPENDS   This is a very general statement and as I outlined in the Other Thoughts and Summary section above, battery power gets more cost prohibitive as you add more and bigger engines and expect longer run times.   There is a lower initial cost of entry, yes.

 

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Final Comments:

 

It should also be noted that what I have attempted to provide here is are some key bullet points used for illustration and to partially assist with making your decision.  I highly encourage you to read the Largescale discussion forums to further educate yourself on the issues, control & sound systems, etc so you can make as informed decision as possible as to what is best for you.

In the end, there is no right or wrong in the options, just choices.  What you end up selecting will be based on what you like, value, your budget and other intangibles.  In the end, it's not about how fancy your control system or if you choose to do what I do.  Everyone should be encouraged to do what they think is best for them and to enjoy.

 

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